Todd:OK., Jeff, you're a writer.

Jeff: A little bit.

Todd: OK.

Jeff: Hobby.

Todd: OK. Talk about writing.

Jeff: I write. I think you writers write about what they know. So, and I don't know much so....so it's difficult. Difficult to be a writer. Now, writers write about what they know so I'm writing. I have a manuscript now about travelling, the people, the people I've come in contact with and what I thought about then. In the situation we've been in when we've met, sort of thing. But it's difficult, it's not easy-- It's not an easy thing to do. At first I did sort of thinking, anyone could do it almost if you put the time into it but now I think it's very difficult. You have to be creative and it's a lot harder than I think it seems. To pick up a finished product, a book. A physical book or to take a book from the library, I think it's-- you underestimate the work and the time that has gone into it. It's a long, lot of effort behind it. So..it's fun, I like it but it's very difficult. But it's good.